edcampbellinterview

Tom Campbell interview

NTV: What prompted you to embark on this project Tom?

TC: About three seasons ago coming back from Kilmarnock on a dreich winter's night on the Edinburgh No.1 bus I overheard four members behind me discussing a newspaper article about miscarriages of justice in football - such as Maradonna's "hand of God". They were irritated that the two examples from Old Firm matches both suggested that Celtic had been given the advantage: "A hundred years of us playing the Huns and that's all they can come up with?" I was struck by the collective sense of grievance, a palpable sense of injustice they all went on to express and I was impressed with their depth of recall - including incidents that had occurred before they were born. I thought it would be worthwhile to re-examine some of those incidents and reach a decision. At the same time, the newspapers - as Rangers were approaching their Nine-in-a-Row - were full of Celtic's so-called "paranoia" but largely discounted it as sour grapes.

NTV: Unlike Bill Murray's books, "Celtic's Paranoia" has not had much media exposure so far in Scotland, although I think it deserves a wider audience than just Celtic fans. Any thoughts on that?

TC: Your paranoia seems to be showing. The publisher tells me that the advertising for the book will be starting near the end of November. In fact, the review in this fanzine will probably be the first one, but I would expect more reviews in the near future. Incidentally, I received an invitation to appear on "On the Ball" 'to plug the book', but I turned it down, feeling that the topic was a bit too serious to be hijacked as fodder for a comedy show.

NTV: It was noteworthy in the Cox-Tully chapter and elsewhere that for decades an assortment of people have been calling for a referee from outside Scotland to take charge of the Old Firm game. This has always made perfect sense to me and the SPL's stance on this matter seems ironic given that Scottish refs seem to have no qualms when it comes to taking charge of potentially explosive fixtures elsewhere when called upon to do so. Didn't Dallas referee an important match in Egypt recently?

TC: Politics. If the SFA or the SPL were to invite an outside referee to take charge of an Old Firm match, they might stand accused of not having officials capable to handle it. Personally, I think it's almost unfair for Scottish referees because of the poisonous atmosphere generated; a foreign referee would suit me fine. Scotland is entitled to 7 FIFA referees, but this does not mean that Scotland has 7 world-class officials. I was assured by a UEFA spokesman that the number was based solely on the calibre of the Scottish league. Back in 1905 an English referee was appointed to handle the Old Firm play-off to decide the league championship at Hampden, and Celtic won by 2:1. Namedropping now. In 1970 I was having lunch with Cyril Horne of the Glasgow Herald and he assured me: 'If Celtic played Rangers anywhere in Europe with a local official in charge, Celtic would win every time by 3:0.' At that moment Jock Stein loomed into view, and the journalist repeated the comment for his benefit. Stein pondered the matter for a moment, frowning in concentration, and shook his head slowly: 'No. Not true. It would only be 2:0.'

NTV: The flag flutter in the early 50s is part of Celtic folklore of course, but I was taken aback to realise just how serious it was. It was a close shave was it not?

TC: I think the SFA would in the end have chickened out of actually expelling Celtic - not out of principle but because it would have been challenged later in the courts and also because of the disastrous effect the loss of Celtic would have had on the other clubs' finances. Probably, Sir George Graham and his followers wanted to force Celtic to make a humiliating capitulation by taking down that flag; fortunately, Bob Kelly and the club rose to the challenge.

NTV: A refereeing award which is mentioned in the context of the Jim Callaghan affair is 'The Charlie Faultless Trophy'. I reckon Mr Faultless was using a stage name and that more referees should be encouraged to adopt this practice, like boxers and WWF wrestlers; for example Hugh 'Fairplay' Dallas or Bobby 'The Stopwatch' Tait. I note with interest that this has already started and that there are two officials on the SFA's list for this season called Mr Peace and Mr Love. What do you think?

TC: There was a referee named C. E. Faultless during the 1950s- a West of Scotland referee and a good one. A bit of a character too, but he was in charge of the 1955 cup final between Celtic and Clyde. The Glasgow association decided to name its annual trophy partly to honour him but also to provide a marvelous name for the award.

NTV: I think that one of your best points is made in the chapter about referees and complaints of favouritism towards Juventus in Italy. You say, 'It would be pleasant to contemplate a time in Scotland when a referee could be labelled incompetent, pure and simple... or to categorise a top-ranking official's performance as poor on a particular occasion without being considered paranoid.' I totally agree, but at the risk of sounding paranoid, is it not the case that it's a psychological diagnosis more or less confined to us and that the likes of Dick Advocaat can criticise referees while still remaining relatively sane in the eyes of the media?

TC: Very true. Only Celtic supporters are certified as 'paranoid'. Perhaps it's the media's way of disguising an unacceptable truth - that for decades Celtic were treated abysmally by the authorities. Describing Celtic as 'paranoid' shifts the argument away from the facts.

NTV: One of the referees who is singled out in the book is Mr RH Davidson (Airdrie). I remember him very well from my younger days, but I seem to recall that he had two contemporaries who were, in my opinion, in the same league when it came to their handling of Celtic matches, namely Mr JRP Gordon (Newport On Tay - commonly referred to as John Reverend Paisley Gordon around my neck of the terracing) and Mr D. Syme (Rutherglen). I know that Davidson seemed to have almost a personal grudge against Stein, but I also remember that the Celtic manager occasionally became incandescent with rage at the other two as well. Any thoughts on that dynamic duo?

TC: The fued between Stein and Davidson - and there were faults on both sides - was on-going and involved two of the most public men in Scottish football. It was fuelled by an extraordinary number of controversial incidents against Celtic over a very long period. The two you mention were worthy of inclusion but only as footnotes.

NTV: In the book you present quite a compelling case that during Rangers' 9-in-a-row season certain referees were, if not outrightly conspiring to secure the title for the Gers, at least doing their bit to ease things along that season. Even you admit to almost being sold on the old conspiracy theory that season!

TC: During Rangers' charge to their Nine in a Row I did consider for the first time in my life the validity of the conspiracy theory. I reached the conclusion that it was debatable in this instance and I think Rangers received a few dodgy decisions because the momentum was going with them. It's hard for a referee to buck the trend and go against the reigning champions or the favourites to win. Heavyweight boxing champions seldom lose close decisions, the referee opting for the safe option of a draw.

NTV: If things are to improve with regard to supporters' attitudes to referees then surely officials have a part to play themselves. What's wrong with letting them account for their performance by way of post-match interviews the same as everybody else in the game has to? They should maybe be a bit more circumspect in their choice of venue for meetings (masonic halls seems a tad insensitive) and in the content of their after-dinner speeches (see McGinlay, Brian) as well as the attire they wear at training (a Rangers shirt would seem to indicate a certain crassness on the part of the wearer, not to mention downright stupidity).

TC: I think an interview situation could be held but on the Monday following a Saturday game to allow some time for passions to cool.

NTV: Even the refs themselves seem to be getting in on the paranoia act. In the book you allude to grumblings among the rank and file that certain high profile personalities are given preference when it comes to advancing up the greasy pole, not least because of their occupations or backgrounds. Isn't that a worrying trend?

TC: I interviewed six referees or former referees (now supervisors) and they were very professional in that they did not criticise another referee directly ... but I felt there were tensions there about style and personality. They all - in a modest way - gave the impression that they were the best; they had a guid conceit of themselves.

NTV: It was scary to read Hugh Dallas' interview in the Scotsman where he describes his thrill at appearing on the big stage with the world's top players; "To be in that position and know that you're at the top, the same as these guys are in their field... I get a buzz out of that." You couldn't say he's one of the refs who subscribes to the old adage that the best ones are the ones you never notice could you?

TC: No he does not appear to like it when he is not centre-stage, I feel. I wonder about the retiring nature of a man who volunteers to appear on Family Fortunes or who drives a Jaguar with a personalised plate.

NTV: One of the accusations that I would level at referees is that they seem to be quite a humourless bunch. Would you go along with that?

TC: Scottish referees appear to have the personality of accountants (without the charisma). One referee supervisor told me that when he was a young linesman and assigned to Jack Mowat at Starks Park, he noticed the referee leaving the ground and offered him a lift to the railway station. Mowat accepted the lift gratefully, but asked his linesman: 'Were you at the game tonight?'

NTV: You are pretty scathing in the book on the subject of the lamentable state of modern Scottish football journalism. How is such a notoriously badly so-called self-regulatory body going to improve?

TC: Journalists have a job to do and that involves winning circulation wars and in war the first casualty is the truth. There does not appear to be a place for the sportswriter who goes to the match and writes about what he sees, pure and simple. Too many are gossip columnists rather than football writers. It's amazing how few of them admit to having Rangers sympathies - and unconvincing.

NTV: I also go along with John Barnes' diatribe in his book where he bemoans the fact that the same old faces appear in print and on other media as well. It surely can't be healthy to be drawing on such a narrow gene pool can it?

TC: Scottish football is a village( complete with idiots) and the various facets of football are too cosily inter-related: clubs, players, SFA, SPL, journalists, agents and so on. Nobody seems ready to rock the boat on genuine issues: they concentrate on the trivial and the safe targets. It would be great to have a totally outside football writer to come here and report on a football match fearlessly but fairly. It's a Byzantine world where ex-players can function as agents and pundits at the same time.

NTV: Having won the treble last season, mention of outside forces influencing things within the game was decidedly muted. Is it simply the case that a scapegoat must be found for failure and in the absence of an unwillingness to openly criticise our own club we naturally turn to the time-honoured usual suspects? In view of all the other changes happening in the game (it's impossible, for example, to accuse any of the refs in the Champions League of anything but incompetence - see Krug, Helmut) if Celtic were now to embark on an extended run of success perhaps the next generation might be that bit closer to the Celtic fans envisaged in your concluding chapter.

TC: Too many Celtic people (directors, managers, players and supporters) have blamed outside influences for their collective failures. It's very convenient - and sometimes justified - but it is a dangerous practice.